Tournament Review Tuesday: US Grappling Submission Only VI
December 8, 2009
Elyse Goldberg (standing) and Melissa Lopes (ground) in the women’s purple belt absolute. Image courtesy Leslie Dove.
This is a two part review of Saturday’s US Grappling Submission Only event. The first review is by Jimmy Cerra and the second comes to us from Leslie Dove.
by Jimmy Cerra
US Grappling is becoming a more popular tournament circuit on the east coast lately. Just this past Saturday (Dec 5 2009), they held another submission-only tournament near Richmond, VA. “Submission Only VI” was one of their largest to date with 8 rings and around 230-250 competitors participating.
The day started with a 4-man black belt bracket. Dennis Hayes, a Pedro Sauer black belt, won it with two 20+ minute matches. It was also his 38th birthday! The nogi divisions started right afterward, then finally the gi divisions started later in the day. The tournament was well run with very little downtime on the mats. However, it still lasted until late at night due to the sheer number of competitors.
Overall BJJ Revolution Team won the most team points for first place. Lloyd Irvin Martial Arts Academy and Leo Dalla captured second and third places respectively. There were no kid or teen divisions, but they could opt to enter the adult divisions. Some of them did very well, including a diminutive 15 yo who beat a much heavier white belt in their absolute division!
Notably Josh Gaffney won men’s absolute advanced no-gi, Wahsei Miran captured the men’s absolute brown belt title, and Gordon Emery won the men’s purple belt absolute. Melissa Lopes won both the women’s advanced no-gi and purple belt divisions. The winners of all the men’s absolute gi divisions won a Ouano gi, while the women won VJJ BJJ prize packs.
I personally participated in the 149 pound advanced division and helped out refereeing for the rest of the day. This time we got a nice little trophy instead of a medal for winning a bracket. The tables were manned by the local wrestling team. They did a good job supporting us during the matches.
From what I experienced and observed, the submission-only format is very fun. It can be much more relaxing than point-sparring competitions. Competing feels much more like rolling. Most matches were around 7-10 minutes too. However, this time there seemed to be more long matches than usual. Some competitors played defensive games, which drew out the mat lengths. Other times, both competitors tired themselves out to exhaustion. They could not muster the strength to submit each other. The best competitors seemed to conserve their energy and stalk their opponents, waiting for the opportune time to attack.
by Leslie Dove
US Grappling’s Submission Only VI was this weekend at Patrick Henry High School in Ashland, VA, just north of Richmond. As the tournament name implies, the only way to win is by submission. There are no points and no time limits.
Absolute Divisions were offered within all skill and belt levels. All men’s gi absolute winners received an Ouano gi; all women’s nogi and gi absolute winners received a VJJBJJ prize pack. Divisions were called top-down, starting with black belts/advanced and working down to white belt/novice.
The last event at this location, Sub Only IV, in July, was a 2-day event, while this weekend’s was a 1-day. The biggest immediate difference was the greater number of people, both competitors and spectators. Also, this Sub Only featured a 149.9 Black Belt division to lead off the day.
Eric Burdo (BJJ Revolution/Richmond BJJ) and Rudy Fischmann (Wander Braga) took the mat first after the referee and Rules meetings. Eric finally won, and Dennis Hayes (Pedro Sauer/Hybrid Martial Arts Academy) and Steve Bowers (Lloyd Irvin/BJJ United) started next. Dennis eventually won this match. During both black belt matches, matside was crowded and quiet except for an eruption of cheers and clapping after a sweep or escape. It was a great treat for all in attendance to see this level of jiu-jitsu on the mat.
Some time during the second black belt match, a loudspeaker announcement proclaimed the start of regular divisions at 11:20, or the end of the black belt match, whichever came first. 11:20 came first, and brackets started around the black belt match until all 8 mats were running. Later in the day, when longer matches had put the projected schedule behind, a 9th mat was started on the short side between mats 1 and 8.
The loudspeaker called competitors to bracketing or sent them to their mat if they were running late; it was also used to make the very important “Pizza is here” announcements. Large signs behind the bracketing table listed which mat a division was assigned to, and Chrissy Linzy and company kept those signs up-to-date. They also churned out brackets as mat space became available or as exhausted competitors withdrew, and they kept the action going even when the longer matches threatened to keep us there through the night.
At Sub Only IV in July, the longest match was just over 30 minutes; this weekend, everyone seemed to have gotten into the spirit of No Time Limits — there were several 30-min+ and even 1-hr+ matches, and one in nogi Intermediate absolute that went 1 hr 53 minutes! These longer matches stretched the day out, and a few matches were still going on after 9 p.m.
Somewhere during the day, Steve Bowers and Rudy Fischmann met for the 3rd-place black belt match, which Steve won. Eric and Dennis met for the 1st- and 2nd-place match, which ended in 26.5 minutes via armbar, with the win going to Dennis.
Even though there were more people than at the last event, the event was still close-knit. I had a 50-minute match early in the day; by the time we finally finished, there was a crowd around our mat cheering, and most of them weren’t from our schools and didn’t know us. And throughout the rest of the day, even people who hadn’t seen the match were coming up to us and congratulating us on such a long and hard-fought match.
There were 21 girls competing, from white to purple belt. The atmosphere around the women’s mat was friendly all day, with girls offering advice and encouragement to each other. I noticed a similar feeling around the rest of the mats, too, as competitors hung out on the sidelines before stepping on the mats.
A special congrats goes out to Lo Menzies who won the women’s nogi intermediate (115 – 144.5), nogi intermediate absolute, white belt beginner (115 – 129.9), and white belt absolute. After at least 10 matches to win all 4 divisions, she was awarded her blue belt on the mat.
After my matches, I relieved some of the table workers. We were kept well-supplied with brackets so that we never had an idle mat. The Patrick Henry High School wrestlers helped out at the tables, too, and seemed excited by the action. The kid at my table admitted that he freaked out every time someone pulled guard and deliberately put their back on the mat, but he was also proud of himself for picking up jiu-jitsu terminology during the day.
With US Grappling’s submission only format, there’s no worry about points, holding a position for 3 seconds, stalling, time limits, or advantages. It’s just jiu-jitsu until someone taps. And it makes for a fun and rewarding tournament experience.
Jimmy “Frodo” Cerra is a purple belt under Phil Miglarese. He teaches BJJ at Team Balance Pittsburgh. Leslie Dove is a blue belt and trains under Tim Mannon in Christiansburg, VA. She writes the blog bjjgrrl.wordpress.com.
This is an installment in our Tournament Review Tuesdays column, where FightWorks Podcast listeners submit reports about Brazilian jiu-jitsu and grappling competitions that happened the weekend prior. The opinions expressed do not necessarily represent those of The FightWorks Podcast. Through the rest of 2009, if you submit a Tournament Review Tuesday piece, you might win an Isami gi!
- Caleb
#191 Rener Gracie, Jonathan Torres
December 6, 2009
Rener Gracie
Last week on The FightWorks Podcast we heard from New York-based Renzo Gracie, who helped fill in our knowledge of the late Rolls Gracie. Renzo went on to make some comments regarding the Gracie Academy in Torrance, California, which is lead by Helio Gracie’s first born son, Rorion Gracie. Renzo did not mince his words. Today on our humble Brazilian jiu-jitsu internet radio show, we bring you Rener Gracie, Rorion Gracie’s son. Rener responds to Renzo’s comments and goes on to tackle some criticism that has been directed their way regarding their online jiu-jitsu training program called Gracie University.
Also in this episode, we will get to know Jonathan “JT” Torres, the twenty-year old black belt from Lloyd Irvin Martial Arts who has been tearing it up on the competition scene. Despite his youth, his BJJ technique has propelled him to coming in second place as a brown belt at the 2009 BJJ World Championship. He was awarded his black belt shortly later and in September won his weight division at the American National Championship, and came in third in the absolute division. (You can see video of his match against the gold medal winner Joao Assis here.)
[iTunes] Subscribe to the Podcast directly in iTunes (recommended)
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Jonathan Torres plays guard against Gracie Barra’s Bruno Amorim at the 2009 BJJ World Championship.
TRANSCRIPTION OF RENER GRACIE INTERVIEW
The FightWorks Podcast: Hey family, we are here on the line right now with Rener Gracie, of the Gracie Academy in Torrance, California. As I think the Mighty 600,000 know, there has been an awful lot of chatter online in the last couple of weeks, due to a couple of recent interviews we had on the Fightworks Podcast. That started with Relson Gracie, I think on the 22nd November, and then a week later, on the 29th November, we had Renzo Gracie come on and give a couple of opposing viewpoints to the points Relson raised the week before.
In that conversation, there were some comments made about the Torrance Academy. So, I thought it would only be fair to get a representative from the Torrance Academy on the show to address those, and then move on. So, family please welcome Rener Gracie. Rener, how are you?
Rener Gracie: Thank you bro, appreciate it man, and it’s good to be back. Congratulations on all the success of the show, and thanks for having me.
The FightWorks Podcast: Thank you very much, we appreciate it. Ok Rener, so I’m going to turn it over to you, although I may interrupt you a bit.
Rener Gracie: Feel free.
The FightWorks Podcast: So, I’m guessing you heard the show.
Rener Gracie: Absolutely, I heard the show. So let me take the time to say, first of all, I apologise to my Uncle Renzo. Listening to the interview a week or two ago, it saddened me to know that words which supposedly originated here at the Academy offended him so deeply. I have nothing but respect for Renzo: he’s an amazing fighter and teacher. I just wanted to say that I would never say anything intentionally to demean him or anyone he is associated with.
After listening to his interview, it became clear to me that what bothered Renzo is that someone from the Academy here, either myself or one of my brothers, supposedly told one of his students – correct me if I’m wrong – that we teach the pure Gracie Jiu Jitsu, compared to what everyone else teaches, which is not pure or whatever. That’s kinda what I got from it.
Although I don’t remember the specific incident Renzo is referring to, I do want to acknowledge that we do sometimes use the term ‘Pure Gracie Jiu Jitsu’ to describe what we teach here at the Academy. Now more than ever I can see how that can be offensive to other jiu jitsu instructors, in the family and outside the family, especially when I don’t take the time to explain to the student in that incident.
I have never really openly explained what we mean by ‘pure.’ That’s kinda what I wanted to take the initial time to do here.
When people ask us what the difference is between what we teach and what is being taught elsewhere, and we say that we teach pure Gracie Jiu Jitsu, we’re not claiming to be better fighters, or that we have secret techniques that no one else knows, and we’re really not saying that we have a better capability to produce world champions, here at the Academy.
All we’re saying is that we are teaching the art in accordance to the original fight philosophy of my grandfather, Grandmaster Hélio. If you recall, during Renzo’s interview, he shared his belief on who created the art. If I remember correctly, he stated that Carlos was the first one to learn from the Japanese, as we all know, and that most of the innovative techniques came from Rolls.
Then he went on to say that the only contribution made by Hélio was that he added the defensive aspect, to the art. Do you remember that?
The FightWorks Podcast: I remember most of what you’re saying, but I’ll put it the way I remember, and you correct me: somewhere in the middle is probably what Renzo said.
Carlos Sr was the first to be expose to, and learn jiu jitsu, from Maeda, the Japanese.
Rener Gracie: Sure, sure, sure.
The FightWorks Podcast: From there, after Maeda was doing his own thing somewhere else, presumably, Carlos exposed Hélio to it, and from there at some point down the line, Hélio took it on as his own. As Renzo said, he was the Einstein of taking what Carlos passed him, and refining that into the defensive stuff you’re talking about.
Rener Gracie: Yes.
The FightWorks Podcast: Then from there, Rolls added some different twists.
Rener Gracie: Correct. The truth is, the way it came out to me is that the main thing he attributed to my grandfather was adding the defensive aspect to it.
The FightWorks Podcast: That’s maybe the self defense aspect, is that what you mean?
Rener Gracie: I think more than that. I think what he meant, and I know what he’s talking about, is the survival aspect: the idea that you can beneath somebody and be ok, not have to impose yourself upon them. The overall idea that you can be patient during the fight, and not have to go and attack before you defend. Basically, defense first, then attack later.
The FightWorks Podcast: As a smaller person.
Rener Gracie: As a smaller person, exactly. Now, what Renzo did not say, when he mentioned that my grandfather developed the defensive aspect, was that this defensive mindset enabled my grandfather to survive the Japanese champion Masahiko Kimura for thirteen minutes, and survive against the much younger Waldemar Santana for three hours and forty minutes, when he was about forty years old. It was the defensive mindset that enabled Rickson (when he was younger), to defeat Zulu back in the day, and it was that defensive mindset that put Gracie jiu jitsu on the map back when Royce beat Dan Severn in UFC 4.
Now, what people don’t realize is that when my grandfather added the defensive aspect, he added a philosophy, which was “if you don’t lose, you will eventually win.” That philosophy, more than any other technique or strategy, is what differentiates our jiu jitsu from its Japanese counterpart.
If you think about it, that philosophy is what make our system unique from every other martial art on the planet. As you know, other arts, what they teach is, if you don’t win fast – you’ve got aggression, punch, kick, eye gouge, break him right away – if you don’t win in a hurry, you might lose.
In fact, other martial arts, based on the fact that they teach so much about aggression and overcoming, and basically overwhelming your opponent with aggressive behavior, shouldn’t even be called self-defense. They should be called self-offence, if you ask me.
So when people reference sometimes, in the family and outside the family, that Hélio created Brazilian or Gracie jiu jitsu, it is not because he was the first one to learn the Japanese techniques, or that he created a certain number of moves and added it to the art. It is because the people who say that acknowledge that he added what Renzo called the ‘defensive aspect’. Or, the one thing that made the art useful for smaller people against larger people in real fights.
Now, the problem is that the defensive mindset that is so characteristic of this amazing art is not being taught at 99% of Brazilian jiu jitsu schools. Here’s why: any instructor whose primary objective is to prepare students for MMA or sport jiu jitsu competition cannot teach the defensive mindset, the survival mindset as the ultimate fight strategy, because patience will not lead to victory in the sportive setting. Any time there is an artificial time limit, you have no choice but to adopt a fully ‘offensive mindset’ (as I call it), otherwise you will lose when the time runs out, by points, or by judges decision.
Now, this offensive mindset is ok when you’re fighting someone in your weight class, and you can count on the clock to save you when you’re exhausted. But, as family history and all the fights show, the only reliable way to defeat a giant is to adopt the Grandmaster’s 100% defensive philosophy.
If you got into a fight with Brock Lesnar, for example, and you tell yourself, “I’ve got to win within five minutes, I’ve got to win within this five minute round right now,” what are you going to do? You’re going to fight for your life to make something happen, exhaust yourself in the process, and then expose yourself to get smashed. Like the people who’ve crossed his path, right?
The only reliable strategy against someone that strong is to enter the fight with 100% concern with avoiding defeat at all costs, and wait for them to create an opportunity for you.
The FightWorks Podcast: Which is what you’re saying came from your grandfather.
Rener Gracie: Exactly, and that is the critical mindset which is no longer being taught. Now, it wouldn’t be so bad if schools, Brazilian jiu jitsu schools, taught the defensive mindset for the first few years, and then once it was clear the student had the patience to survive against a giant – and we’ve found that it takes between three to five years for them to really embody this patient, this Grandmaster mindset – at that point, began teaching them the offensive mindset needed to prevail in a sportive setting.
That would make sense, and that wouldn’t be so bad, because then you know that the student is ready for the worst case scenario. Unfortunately, that isn’t a reality, because every sport school is so concerned with creating sportive competitors out of every person who walks in the door that they don’t want to spend any time on any strategy that will not lead to a gold medal.
So when people ask my brothers and I, for example, why we don’t fight MMA, it’s not because we don’t believe in what we’re teaching, quite the opposite. It’s because we have to abandon the one principle that we believe in most: patience.
In order to prevail, we would have to adopt a super-offensive MMA mindset, to entertain the crowd and to please the judges. Obviously, it wouldn’t be worth it. Now, we’ve trained with many UFC fighters out there, and we know the calibre of the guys that are out there. We would win some and we would lose some, like everyone else who plays the game, but for my brothers and I it’s not worth it, to abandon the one thing that our grandfather stood for, just for the quick paycheque.
The FightWorks Podcast: Let me interrupt you Rener, because I don’t want to go too far down the conversation, because you said something earlier that was interesting. I’d like you to clarify a little bit, maybe. It sounded like you’re saying there is a significant difference between the approach to teaching jiu jitsu at the Torrance Academy compared to, based on what you said, 99% of the schools out there.
Rener Gracie: Yes.
The FightWorks Podcast: Is it safe to say, I mean, are we comparing apples and oranges? I know they are two separate ways of thinking about jiu jitsu, but are they really two separate things, almost?
Rener Gracie: I mean…I guess so, I mean it’s becoming that. I would like to think that the schools who do sport jiu jitsu, could be like in the old days, when they had these pure Gracie jiu jitsu schools, who had guys who participated in sport, but the self defense and the survival aspect was the primary focus, and the sportive participation was kind of a by-product.
But now, everyone is so concerned with creating a world champion, something that people in my family do incredibly well – some people in my family, some people out of my family – that there is no time to focus on the aspect that we think is the most important thing about jiu jitsu, the Brazilian way or the Gracie way. The number one thing is being forgotten, more for the sportive aspect.
Let me give you an example, three weeks ago a woman who was a blue belt came down from a school in North California, to do a class with us. During the class, Ryron of course tries to spar with the students who come visit. Ryron was sparring with this girl in the class, and he sidemounted her. When he sidemounted her, he established full control, tight sidemount.
She went berserk, completely crazy to get out. She fought for her life! After about thirty seconds, she exhausted a 100% of her energy, and she gave up, tapped out, “ok, I give up.” Then Ryron asked her, “what were you doing?” Her response was, “I was trying to escape your sidemount,” of course.
Now, it was very clear that she didn’t make this stuff up. There was some sport jiu jitsu or MMA coach out there telling her that when you get trapped on the bottom of sidemount, you must escape at all costs.
Imagine if that same woman got in a real attack, a sexual assault, and a man held her down – got her in the side mount or mount, or whatever – tight, against her will. She would resort to the exact same “escape at all costs” strategy. That would immediately deplete all her energy, at which point she would be helpless against the attacker. That’s when it really starts to get serious.
The major difference between the Gracie Academy and all the sport BJJ schools lies not within the techniques that we practice, although I’m sure there are techniques out there that my brothers and I don’t know, innovative new sport techniques, some that we haven’t learned, just as my brothers and I have developed tricks of our own that we haven’t shared yet.
Essentially, we’re all using the same leverage, we’re all breaking the same arms, we’re all choking the same necks. The real difference lies in the fight philosophy that we promote from the very beginning. We teach our students to avoid defeat at all costs, then attack as soon as the opportunity arises, whereas sport jiu jitsu schools teach to attack as much as possible within the artificial time limit.
So, even though the terms ‘Brazilian’ and ‘Gracie jiu jitsu’ both originated from the same place, when people ask us what the difference is, we say that Brazilian jiu jitsu is the sportive practice of the art, that’s kinda what it has become, whereas Gracie jiu jitsu, or pure Gracie jiu jitsu, is the version of the art that is taught according to the defensive philosophy of the Grandmaster Hélio Gracie.
This is the same philosophy that each and every member of the Gracie family relies on, including Renzo, when facing an opponent who has a significant strength or size advantage. So, all the family members have the philosophy and they know the philosophy, but sometimes they have no choice but to push it aside and omit it in their teachings to prepare world champions.
Ultimately what it has come to is that if we don’t find a way to preserve the philosophy of the Grandmaster, the defensive mindset that put Gracie jiu jitsu on the map, we’ll be lost forever. So my brothers and I, as well as the Valente brothers at Gracie Miami in Florida, who also learned directly from my grandfather, have essentially dedicated our lives to the preservation of this pure Gracie jiu jitsu. Not so that we can create world champions, out of amazing athletes, but so that the underdogs of society always have an art that they can count on.
The FightWorks Podcast: Ok, so here’s another question for you. So, I’m sure you would agree that the guys who are at black belt, who do compete out there, are probably pretty secure compared to everybody else out there in a self defense situation. They’re probably going to be just fine.
Rener Gracie: Correct.
The FightWorks Podcast: So if we pare it back and peel back the onion, brown belts are also probably pretty safe out there, and – I hate to do this to you – but white belts, from what you’re saying, are probably not as exposed to the kind of thing that will keep them safe in a self defense situation.
Rener Gracie: Correct.
The FightWorks Podcast: So somewhere along that spectrum is going to be a person, guy or girl, who has been training jiu jitsu in a “sporting academy”, and somewhere in there they are going to learn the stuff that’s going to make them safe.
Rener Gracie: Yeah, good question! That’s a really good question. I think the blue belt lady who came here is a great example, you know what I’m saying? It’s a great example of how she basically didn’t reach that point yet. That’s the problem, I think it’s flipped. What you’re saying is “Rener, somewhere deep in their career, they’re going to be ready for a street fight scenario.”
At the Gracie Academy, that’s the first and 100% priority before anything else, and then somewhere deeper in their career, they’re going to be so skilled at the street fight scenario and the mindset, and they’re going to have so many techniques – we’re teaching essentially the same thing, the difference is the philosophy – that somewhere deeper, a purple or brown belt from here can go against any sport purple or brown belt out there and fare just as well.
So it’s like, yes, they cross paths somewhere down there, right? The question is, which path should they start on? You know what I’m saying? At the Gracie Academy, we realize that people should start on the path that they came for. Any time somebody walks in the front door of the Academy, we’re assuming – and I think it’s pretty accurate – that they’re coming here to learn how to defend themselves against a larger, stronger opponent in a real fight. Protect themselves, protect their family: they saw Royce in the UFC, and they want to learn that.
They’re not going to the school saying “Hey, I want to get my white belt and win my first gold medal.” You understand? So that’s why we’ve chosen the self defense/survival path first, and then let the competition, if the student ever wants to compete, be a by-product of their several hundred or thousands of training hours, they have the skills, they have the reflexes, and they transfer.
But, in the beginning, what we can’t do is teach the students that if they’re trapped in the bottom of the sidemount, they have to escape at all costs, they have to get out. That’s happening every day at schools around the country because they’re training them for the three, five, seven minute time limit that exists in a tournament jiu jitsu match. They have to, otherwise they have no chance of victory.
The FightWorks Podcast: There’s folks out there who have heard the stories, or have been exposed to folks who – and this is going to play right into what you’re saying – of guys who may be blue belts or even purple who may not have been exposed to a correct escape from a headlock.
Rener Gracie: Yes! Thank you! There are purple belts who come here who don’t know how to block a punch from the guard. There are people who go to our online University – which by the way we have to talk about in a minute or two, because Renzo also bashed that pretty hard, which I understand – but there are people who go to our online University, who train for several years at a sport jiu jitsu school, then they show up at Gracie University.com, and they’re like, “wow, I never learned how to escape the mount against somebody who is punching me!”
This is major stuff. So, later in the interview, Renzo expressed his concerns regarding our efforts to make the complete curriculum available online through Gracie University.com. Since he’s not the first family member to express his concern, I’d like to take a few moments, if you’d let me, to clarify the matter.
The FightWorks Podcast: Yeah, we’ve got about ten more minutes, so let’s slip into that.
Rener Gracie: First of all, in order for you to understand Gracie University.com, you must understand why my grandfather fought in the ring. He didn’t fight to show that he was the baddest. He fought because he modified these techniques, he fought to develop his own conviction in the techniques, to believe in them, and to show his viewers that it worked, so that they would let him teach them.
His passion was to teach, so much so that one week before he passed away, he was teaching a class on a Brazilian television show. His passion was to empower others with the art. With that said, the three phases of the overall Gracie family objective can be understood.
Phase one, of the Gracie family overall objective, was to create the most effective system of self defense that the world had ever known. My grandfather did that, his brothers, everyone added to it, everyone added to it. That’s great.
Now, phase two was to show the world the necessity for the art, by proving it’s effectiveness against other disciplines. That was done by my grandfather, a lot of it, but also by the other uncles: Royce, Rickson, my father when he created the UFC, Renzo every time he fights, these guys are proving it’s effectiveness against other styles, to show the necessity for it.
Phase three, was to teach this system to the world. Phase three of the Gracie family purpose is to empower others. Any Gracie will tell you that. We are here to share, and empower the lives of others.
My brother and I were born and raised during phase two. Ryron and I was raised during phase two. As we matured into adulthood, we had to choose what we were going to spend our time and energy on. What we would dedicate our lives to, basically.
The following two things were most significant in helping us make our decision: first, by the time we were eighteen years old, every UFC fighter had adopted or added Brazilian jiu jitsu to their arsenal. Secondly, and more significantly, as of 2003, the entire US Army had adopted Gracie jiu jitsu as their primary hand-to-hand combat system.
Together, these two points were evidence that phase two was accomplished. The world had accepted Gracie jiu jitsu as the premier martial art, and though I will admit that our egos wanted to fight professionally, to continue proving the effectiveness of the art in the ring, we realized that eventually someone in the family had to stop focusing on proving it and start focusing on sharing it.
That’s when my brothers and I decided we would dedicate our lives to teaching the pure Gracie jiu jitsu to the world. At first we weren’t sure how we were going to do that, since the traditional way of certifying instructors was too slow, and would take forever to accomplish the mission, not to mention it’s hard to find instructors who could uphold the integrity of the art.
That’s when we decided that the only way we could reach the world was through the internet and DVD. Now, we weren’t the first ones to think of this: there are many others who have produced great videos and DVDs, and online courses, including Renzo and several other members of our family, but the one thing we realized was that all those were produced to complement the live training that somebody received at a school of martial arts.
If someone didn’t have a school to train at, these DVDs or online videos would be of little help. My brothers and I knew that the only possible way to teach the world through video would be if we organised the entire art into a linear curriculum, from white to black belt, something that had never been done before, and then capture every detail of every technique in the exact order and lesson format that one would experience if they were to receive private lessons from us for ten years straight. So we developed Gracie University.com and we went for it.
In order to track the progress of each student, we also created a revolutionary video evaluation process through which any student can digitally record themselves performing the techniques, upon completing each section of the curriculum, then upload those videos to Gracie University.com for us to evaluate. If they perform all the techniques perfectly, they can qualify for an official belt promotion through this process, and if not, we send them a detailed evaluation report outlining each and every mistake they made at the exact time code at which it occurred.
Unlike ever before, students in the middle of nowhere can learn self defense through the internet and get ultra-specific feedback from their instructors without ever having to spend thousands of dollars having to travel to a school.
The FightWorks Podcast: So, and I want to make it clear for our listeners, whether or not you guys would say that this should take the place of a school nearby. I mean, does this replace the necessity to train with a person live? If somebody has the access to something like that locally, they should…
Rener Gracie: [interrupts] If they have the access to a quality school, that will probably make it easier to reach the top, yes, of course. The goal here is to make it possible for somebody to learn completely on their own, but of course, if you have a school, if you’re next door to the Academy, you should be training here, correct.
Put it this way: you’ll get to the top faster, if you have somebody guiding. If you’re on your own, you have to figure things out on your own, it takes much more discipline and dedication.
Since this had never been done before, we knew we would face opposition from a large segment of the population in and out of the family, and we couldn’t have been more accurate, basically. As soon as we released the Gracie Combatives course, our white to blue belt curriculum, on DVD and online, we received a visit from two of our uncles – I’m not going to say who – who told us that the course should not be released because it was too good.
They said “Rener, if you release these DVDs, why would people go to a school to learn?” They saw the DVDs of course. “You’re giving away the teaching secrets, everything that makes the Gracie family unique.”
What my uncles did not understand at the time, and what all instructors around the world still don’t understand, is that we’re not doing this to take students from the brick and mortar jiu jitsu schools, Gracie or not. We’re doing this to make the art learnable for those who live hundreds of miles away from a legitimate school, or cannot afford to pay $200 dollars a month.
My grandfather always said that the world would be a better place if everyone knew Gracie jiu jitsu.
The FightWorks Podcast: We’re not going to argue with that. [laughs]
Rener Gracie: All we’re trying to do now by giving everyone, literally, the opportunity to learn.
The FightWorks Podcast: Yeah, and I’ll agree with you, and you hear this: we get emails on the show from people who say “I live in the middle of nowhere, I’m so jealous of you guys in Southern California, and all these other places that have great jiu jitsu all over. We have maybe a blue belt in town at best.”
Rener Gracie: Right!
The FightWorks Podcast: So there is a need, I can’t argue with that.
Rener Gracie: Let me take it one step further. By, my brothers and I, releasing the curriculum online, and on DVD, in such a comprehensive and engaging format, we are actually helping every instructor in the jiu jitsu community, right? Here’s how. MMA is the fastest growing sport in the world, we all know that, but I’m willing to bet that more than 95% of the viewers would never even consider practicing anything that has to do with the UFC, not even jiu jitsu, since their only perception of the art is what they see in the cage, and they want nothing to do with that.
At Gracie University.com, we’ve made Lesson One of the Gracie Combatives course free for anyone to view. In doing so, we’re giving everyone in the world the opportunity to experience the amazingness of Gracie jiu jitsu, in the most structured and technical format ever put on video, all from the comfort, all from the comfort and safety of their own home. Invariably, once they see it, they fall in love.
Basically, by giving people all over the world their ‘intro classes’, as we call it, in their homes, my brothers and I have created students out of tens of thousands of people in 144 countries who would have never otherwise considered practicing the art. Of the students who fall in love online, some have the desire and the necessary discipline to learn from home, but most of them, as you said, will want to end up joining a local school, to help them make it to the top.
The FightWorks Podcast: Which is what we want from everybody anyhow.
Rener Gracie: Yes! So rather than fear we’re going to take food off their table, every jiu jitsu instructor, in the family and outside the family, on the planet should be thankful that we have dedicated our lives to creating more students for the art as a whole.
You know what I’m saying? My dad taught me, from a very young age, my father taught me, that any time you do anything revolutionary, you will have half the world on their side, and you will have half the world against you, and as usual, he was right.
Every major advance in the last twenty years, Caleb, from calculators to online courses, has been met with resistance from those who only saw the limitations of those advances. Gracie University.com is no exception. Those who don’t understand it hate it, but those who are now learning pure Gracie jiu jitsu because of it think it’s the best creation of all time.
So I’m willing to live with the 50-50 support from the population, as long as everyone goes to Gracie University.com and watches Lesson One for free before they choose which side they’re on.
The FightWorks Podcast: Ok, so we’ve got to wind down, so let me start to close, but I think one of the questions that raised some eyebrows, or that people first thought about when they heard about your course is that technically, from what you’ve described, it is possible to receive a black belt having never trained with somebody live before, in person, only over video. Is that accurate?
Rener Gracie: Yeah, when you say “haven’t trained with someone live,” I mean, a little more specifically, they’re training with one, two, three, five, ten people, they’re training with a lot of people. They’re not just watching and sending in a written test, they’re actually learning and doing the techniques.
Now, regarding the black belt. No. The black belt cannot be earned, they have to come to the Academy. What happens is, through the video evaluation process, the highest rank someone can get, if they want to train online, at home, in their living room, for ten or twelve years straight, whose to say they can’t learn the art, right? The highest rank they can earn is a brown belt with four stripes.
So they can go all the way up, they can earn these stripes, they can test every single stripe along the way, that they test for, and if it’s perfect all the way up, and they know the techniques…now, the tests are pretty extensive. Now basically, they show them sparring, gi and no-gi, demonstrating every technique, right? They can get to four stripe brown belt, if they train, but it’s going to take a long time, several years.
If they get there, we invite them out to the Gracie Academy so they can participate in a five-day, live black-belt qualification test, here at the Academy, 100% free to them. There’s no cost to participate in that, because of course by then, they’re family right?
So the answer is yes, someone can climb the ladder from home. It’s hard for anyone to understand how that is possible, until they see the lessons. They’ve got to see Gracie Combatives. Once you see that, you have to see the Master Cycle, our path from blue belt to black belt.
The Master Cycle, bro – I mean, it’s not even released yet, on the air, it will be there in a few months – but, it’s incredible. We don’t just teach the techniques, you know? What me and Ryron do is every single morning, we come in, we load up the cameras, we shoot lessons, and we don’t just give the techniques, we give the techniques and all the reflex development drills, the sparring exercises…we demonstrate everything and say what they’ve got to do.
We teach them how to raise the intensity…I mean it’s literally as if you were in my living room, and I was verbally coaching you every step of the way, and you had a partner and I was watching you. It’s linear, so every single class builds on the previous lessons. So they’re not just like there…
There are lots of online learning sites right now, by the way, that are great, lots of information, but there are so many videos that a student who jumps on board doesn’t even know where to start, right? They just see three hundred, five hundred, a thousand videos, and they’ve just got to kinda choose their own path, and that’s not worth doing.
As you can see, in Lesson One of Gracie Combatives, we’re taking them by the hand and we’re showing them the exact path, with the details and everything in between, so it’s pretty incredible.
I understand, because it is so unique, this whole process, I understand all the hatred from the instructors especially out there, and all the animosity and the split support. But guess what: when I get an email from someone right in the middle of nowhere, who is like “Rener, this is the best thing I’ve ever seen, I’ve been following you guys since ‘93 and I’ve been waiting for this. This is a godsend and you guys are incredible”?
Forget about it, I don’t care what anybody says negative about it, if that person, all the people out there on their own are learning, it is a 100% worth it to me and my family, because that’s what my grandfather would want. My grandfather, ultimately, would say “Hey, let’s make it available to as many people as possible.” He didn’t even know that technology could do this, right? He killed himself, broke his back, to basically teach thirty or forty private classes a day.
His claim to fame was “Rener, I used to change my gi twenty times a day,” just teaching private classes. In other words, “Rener, look at what I’m doing to help life, to help other people.” He could fight professionally, and just chill between classes, and between fights, like many other professional fighters do. But no, he was fighting one day, and the next day he is back on the mats, teaching the President of Brazil. His passion was teaching, his passion was sharing it.
We found a way, and naturally there is going to be some anger, which we accept and understand, as long as the people learn all over the world. I’m 100% ok with that.
The FightWorks Podcast: Yeah, like you said, if there are folks who otherwise would never even touch it, who find this as a vehicle to get into jiu jitsu, who can argue with that.
Rener Gracie: Yes, and the thing is we’re creating more students, the instructor should be grateful. Now, if you recall, at the end of Renzo’s interview, he seemed pretty upset, and he even challenged my brothers and I, saying that he wanted to come down here and show us the real jiu jitsu.
I hope that in this interview, I was able to clarify any misunderstanding that caused this anger towards us, but if not, I just wanted to say that I would rather give Renzo whatever title he is looking for before I would ever fight him or any other member of the family with malintentions.
Now, with that being said, if he wants to come down and choke us out a few times, like uncles are supposed to, my brothers and I would be honored, and the invitation is always open.
The FightWorks Podcast: [laughs] I was just about to ask you if you had any closing statements referring back to the interview, but you just nailed it there. Unless there is anything else, I think it’s probably time to wrap up.
I think you addressed a lot of the concerns that Renzo had, right? You talked about his concern about the student visiting and the online stuff, so anything else in general you want to say to our audience, the might 600,000, before we let you go?
Rener Gracie: No sir, thank you for the opportunity, and thank you for the call. It’s all good, it’s all family. Again, in the end, we’re all after the same thing: a world of Gracie or Brazilian jiu jitsu, everyone on the same page, everyone learning this incredible art, all our lives getting better because of it. I appreciate the support, the students, and I’m here to share. My life is dedicated to sharing, and that’s what it’s all about.
The FightWorks Podcast: Ok, Rener Gracie, thank you very much.
Rener Gracie: Thank you, bro.
BJJ Poll: What is the Highest BJJ Belt Rank You Think You Will Attain?
December 5, 2009
I think it is safe to say that every member of the Mighty 600,000 that is not a Brazilian jiu-jitsu black belt dreams of becoming one. And while there are more black belts in jiu-jitsu today than ever before, a minority of the people who sign up for BJJ class and put on a gi will ever make it to black belt.
So in this week’s poll, be honest. What is the highest BJJ belt you think you’ll be awarded? Don’t answer what the belt you want to achieve is, but what you will achieve.
The Gracie Academy Responds This Coming Sunday
December 4, 2009
Gracie family members from left to right: Rhalan, Reylan, Rener, Relson, Rorion, Ralek, and Ryron.
Just a quick heads up for those who don’t follow us on Twitter: On Episode 191 of The FightWorks Podcast (that’s Sunday!), Rener Gracie responds to the statements made by his uncle Renzo Gracie. Renzo’s impassioned comments about The Gracie Academy in Torrance resulted in that show being downloaded more than any FightWorks Podcast episode in our humble BJJ radio show’s history.
Rener is the son of Rorion Gracie and the grandson of Helio Gracie, as well as a head instructor at the Gracie Academy in Torrance. I felt that it would be wrong to not offer him the opportunity to address Renzo’s claims.
In addition, we’ll hear from Jonathan “JT” Torres, the twenty year-old Lloyd Irvin black belt who has been excelling in competition in his jiu-jitsu career. After just returning from competition in Japan, he is now in Brazil this very weekend competing again.
Catching Up with Gilbert "Durinho" Burns
December 1, 2009
Gilbert Burns of Atos Jiu-Jitsu in the 2009 BJJ World Championship finals against Michael Langhi of Alliance.
Bruce Hoyer, a regular contributor to the FightWorks Podcast sends us this quick interview with Gilbert Burns, the lightweight silver medalist at the 2009 BJJ World Championships.
The FightWorks Podcast: So how are you Gilbert?
Gilbert “Durinho” Burns: I’m fine.
The FightWorks Podcast: Where are you teaching at these days?
Gilbert “Durinho” Burns: In Fightworks Asia. [editor: FightWorks Asia has no relationship with The FightWorks Podcast or FightWorks BJJ in Virginia].
The FightWorks Podcast: That is in Singapore right? How is the BJJ scene over in Singapore?
Gilbert “Durinho” Burns: Nice at training now, but we have many guys starting.
The FightWorks Podcast: Very cool. What are your plans for competition in 2010?
Gilbert “Durinho” Burns: I want to fight in the European Championships, Pan-Ams, Brazilian Championships and World Champion after I that I will have my first fight in MMA.
The FightWorks Podcast: Do you feel that training for MMA affects your game in grappling?
Gilbert “Durinho” Burns: No I think BJJ is the best martial art. I go puts this improve
The FightWorks Podcast: But do you feel training for MMA will hurt your BJJ game?
Gilbert “Durinho” Burns: A bit. Because of this I will do MMA starting after the Worlds.
The FightWorks Podcast: You have been traveling a lot after your 2008 World Championships. Where are all the places you’ve gone?
Gilbert “Durinho” Burns: In the USA I have been to North Carolina, Hong Kong, Philippines and Singapore. Now I return to Brasil for training and start training hard for competitions.
The FightWorks Podcast: You are a member of the Atos Jiu-Jitsu team. How is the preparation for major competitions different at Atos?
Gilbert “Durinho” Burns: We train 3 times a day. Then we do workouts as well. Ramon Lemos is the teacher of BJJ and Thiago Mendes is the workout teacher.
The FightWorks Podcast: Wow. Three training sessions a day?
Gilbert “Durinho” Burns: Yes, they have a camp before big competitions. It is usually two months, 3 times a day. They are very hard training sessions.
The FightWorks Podcast: Well anything you would like to tell new grapplers about how they can become a world champion like yourself?
Gilbert “Durinho” Burns: Be dedicated and train every day. Stamina, dedication, discipline.
The FightWorks Podcast: Very good! Well thanks for chatting with me and good luck in your upcoming tournaments!
Gilbert “Durinho” Burns: Thank you.
#190 Renzo Gracie
November 29, 2009
Renzo Gracie
This week on The FightWorks Podcast we jump on the line with Renzo Gracie. Renzo is not only a black belt in jiu-jitsu (of course), but he is one of the Gracie family with the most mixed martial arts fights out there. As a member of Gracie Barra, Renzo has come on our show to share some of his thoughts about the comments made last week on our show by Relson Gracie. Relson offered some frank opinions about some of the changes he perceives in jiu-jitsu and like most opinions, there are those who believe differently. Renzo is known as the perennial smiling nice guy in the Gracie family but his rebuttals in this week’s show will show an angle of Renzo you probably have not heard before.
In addition to the counterpoints that Renzo states in today’s show, we learn more about the late Rolls Gracie and his role in the early development of what we call Brazilian jiu-jitsu today.
Renzo goes on to confirm that he is indeed returning to mixed martial arts action in the UFC. The date and opponent are not official but he should see action in the octagon in early 2010.
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Gracie Barra students in Southern California.
TRANSCRIPTION OF RENZO GRACIE INTERVIEW
RENZO GRACIE
The FightWorks Podcast: All right family, this is Caleb with the Fightworks Podcast, and we have a very special guest on this week. Last week, we had a couple of big names on our show, and this week is just the same. Right now, on the call, I am joined by Renzo Gracie. Renzo, how are you?
Renzo Gracie: How are you doing my brother, nice talking to you here.
The FightWorks Podcast: We’re great, and we’re happy you’re here. Renzo, we brought you on because there are probably some opinions you have about our conversation with Relson last week.
Renzo Gracie: Yes, yes. Relson is a great guy, I love that guy.
The FightWorks Podcast: Some of the things that Relson said, may have…a few people in Gracie Barra may have strong opinions about some of the things Relson said. Do you want to start, or would you like some examples?
Renzo Gracie: Could you bring that up, because I didn’t have a chance to read the whole thing yet?
The FightWorks Podcast: One of the things that Relson said, that I think some people might find interesting, or maybe controversial, was that – and this is not an exact quote – “Roger Gracie is the only person in Gracie Barra who uses pure Gracie Jiu Jitsu.” I think he is talking about his style of attack with the closed guard, and that sort of thing. Does that help?
Renzo Gracie: Does that make sense to me, is that what you ask? [laughs]
The FightWorks Podcast: Sure, sure.
Renzo Gracie: No, it does not. Now its funny, now that you mention, I had a very strange experience this past week. One of my students, he actually went to California, and he ask me where he should train. I say, “the Gracie Academy,” because that was the closest place to where he was going. I sent him to Rorion’s Academy, the one in Torrance. He goes in, and they told him that he shouldn’t train there, because that place was the “real jiu jitsu place.” It was like they were saying he doesn’t know jiu jitsu, and is learning from a source that doesn’t know how to teach.
You know what happened, my friend: I see a lot of people now, especially my family, saying that. “Oh, I know the real jiu jitsu, you don’t know the real jiu jitsu.” We all learn from the same place, we all develop the same art together, growing up. But for some reason, once they jump in a plane and they move to America they try to sell a product, like the American people are a bunch of fools. Right now, I became American, and I know there are no fools here.
Do they pay for good service? They do. So if you feed them the real technique, if you give them the real sport, and everything like a good product, they will buy it and they don’t care about the price. But don’t try to bullshit them and expect them to accept anything you try to shove down their throat, because this is not the greatest country in the world for no reason. In reality, I see this crap today, “this is the real jiu jitsu”…let me be honest, I see jiu jitsu now turning into Krav Maga. Turn into kung fu! Like they are selling things that will chop your head in half, with a karate chop.
You know, its become a joke. Let me tell you what the real jiu jitsu is: the real jiu jitsu is the one that doesn’t back away from a challenge. It goes at the obstacle and defends its flag. It’s like, if you want to claim that you have the best fighting style, you should be in the UFC kicking some ass. That’s where the best competition is.
So when people call me, saying “this is the real jiu jitsu,” the next thing they are going to say is “I cannot use it, because I could kill you!” [laughs] You know, that’s what I heard my whole life, from those fake martial artists who claim they were better than everybody else. So believe it my friend, I live my whole life watching this and seeing this. We were always against that, and now suddenly one branch of my family is turning into that! It’s claiming that, but doesn’t go on the proving ground to prove it, does not step into the place where he should actually be representing jiu jitsu, to do it.
The only guys that are doing this now, is my team, and actually I’m from Gracie Barra. So if you’re talking bad about Gracie Barra, I was one of the founders. You talk bad about Gracie Barra, you talk bad about me! If you claim that I don’t know jiu jitsu…it’s a joke, you know?
The FightWorks Podcast: I think [laughs] the observation that you made about people claiming their jiu jitsu is the purest, or ‘the’ jiu jitsu, but not coming to demonstrate that against other jiu jitsu, is the important point.
Renzo Gracie: Yes! You have to understand one thing. The champions have the right to talk. The losers have to shut up. If you lost, you should shut your mouth off and walk away. So I don’t see no champions talking [laughs]. That’s the reality. People are selling a product, they become the king of the internet.
The ‘pure jiu jitsu’, it’s doing nothing but selling products on the internet. Again, trying to shove crap in American peoples’ mouths. This is just claiming: go and prove it with acts, my friend! The jiu jitsu was good when nobody else knew any jiu jitsu. Now, everybody knows, so now, only those who are really good shine. If you realise Gracie Barra produce more champions than anybody else, go to the world championship and try to fight in there.
You see, I am one of the guys who have the best game, believe it. If I wanna go compete on the championship level, I would have to dedicate like three or four years of my life to be on the level, of the sharpness, of those kids who are fighting in there. So I cannot question the level, the champions that they are: they are! If you win the world championship, you are legit. Nobody can question that.
Anybody questioning that, it’s because they’re afraid to step in there.
One thing I feel sorry about, is Rorion’s kids. They are very good kids, but their father feeds them nonsense. So, they could be unbelievable fighters, but they are going to end up as mediocre fighters, mediocre people. They are going to go through life as great businessmen. If I was them, I’d be selling self-help books, that’s what they should be doing. There is more money in that, instead of claiming that they are real fighters.
They are far from being real fighters. Far. Believe me. When they created a competition, when my cousin Rorion created a competition and created the rules, so his kids could win, and then tells that his kid is going to win, they couldn’t even win that. Not even the pure jiu jitsu rule that he claims he created, which was nonsense rules. Next thing I see, his kids could win nothing. They were losing to guys on the second tier, like Marc Laimon, he was beating them up. Guys who could not even feature in a world championship! People who could never compete in an Abu Dhabi and do well!
This, you know, it is talk. I don’t like to talk, especially because I do have a sharp tongue, and I’m going to strike everybody who makes no sense to me. Relson is a guy that I love, you have to understand. If he needs a roof tomorrow, he has a place in my house. Exactly like I did with his son, his son was here training with me for a long time, he’s a great kid.
Extremely good heart, very strong mind, could be an unbelievable champion, but he needs the environment for training: that’s the environment I create here in New York. A lot of champions come out of my academy. It’s not without a reason, we train for that, and the same thing at Gracie Barra. So, you can’t question that.
To be honest, if I today was Rorion, I would sign up my kids at Gracie Barra. I would put his kids to train there, so they could reach the top of their potential. Right now, they’re in an environment where they will be nobody, they’re going to be nobody for the rest of their life. Let me tell you one thing, I do believe in a spiritual world, and when you are born with the Gracie name, you have an obligation. You have to fight, you have to teach, and you have to influence people in the right direction.
So, if you start selling crap to people, if you start selling this, then chances are you’re going to fade, you’re going to disappear. You may fool one or two for a little bit, but you cannot fool everybody all the time. That’s the reality, you know.
The FightWorks Podcast: I think one of the complaints that comes from that side is they say modern jiu jitsu competition is too different from the way a real fight happens, and those rules are artificial. So, they don’t want to put their kids in, because they think it’s different from what was intended by people like Hélio Gracie.
Renzo Gracie: No, never. You have to understand, my uncle Hélio was one of the most amazing jiu jitsu fighters I have ever seen. He was responsible for developing a lot of the defence aspect. The fact that he was very weak, physically, but he was able to develop sharpness on the defence.
But, my uncle Hélio never had a chance to meet the Japanese person who actually taught my grandfather. Uncle Hélio never met him, never lay his eyes on Mitsuyo Maeda. So before Uncle Hélio, there was my grandfather Carlos Gracie, there was Jorge Gracie, there was Osvaldo Gracie and there was Gastao Gracie. Those four were fighting before my Uncle Hélio. Uncle Hélio had the chance to represent. Was he an important link on the chain? Yes he was. He was the Einstein, he spent his whole life on the mat, developing and working to make jiu jitsu better. But to claim that he was the creator? He was far from that.
This fight precedes us. We are nothing but messengers of what we receive. My grandfather was the first one, Carlos Gracie was the oldest brother. You know, the only difference, which for some reason my Uncle Hélio forgot, was the brotherly love. You see, if you call my brother Ralph now, and you ask him, who is better, him or me, he is going to tell you, it’s me. If you call me now and ask me, who is better, I will tell you it’s him.
We both know who is better, because we’ve trained together our whole life, but I want to see him in the highest spot. I know he wants to see me that way too. If you ask both of us who is actually better, that came out from my mother’s womb, we would both tell you it was our brother Ryan. This is the difference, between the brotherhood and the love we have for each other, and what my Uncle Hélio and his descendants have.
A lot of times, people only respect the hammer, so let me be honest: I am tired of being the nice guy. I have the fucking hammer in my hand! These people keep talking nonsense and insulting others. So they better be ready to step in there and stand up for their beliefs, because I’m ready to get in there and stand up for everything I believe. I also have a beautiful pair of brass balls to do it. [laughs]
The FightWorks Podcast: Renzo, I want to help clarify things. So, you are saying – for our audience out there – that Carlos Sr was the one who learned from Maeda, and Hélio learned from Carlos…
Renzo Gracie: Yes!
The FightWorks Podcast: …and then it went forward?
Renzo Gracie: Yes! He learned from Carlos and his brothers, Osvaldo, Gastao and Jorge. That’s the reality. He was the youngest one. He would be coming to the academy looking at them teaching jiu jitsu. You want to claim he invented jiu jitsu? If there is anybody who can have that claim, in our family, after my grandfather (my grandfather never claimed it), then it would be Rolls.
Rolls is the one who died in a hang-gliding accident, and he was the guy who actually completely changed jiu jitsu in Brazil. He started training a lot of wrestling, a lot of judo, he started training SAMBO, and he was able to incorporate all that into jiu jitsu. He was the one responsible for all the evolution we have today. He was the pioneer of all that change.
Rickson, as good as he was, Rolls was his teacher. All the new generation, they became that great because they learned from him. Relson was great because he learned from him too. So if someone has that claim, only Rolls could do that, but he was humble enough to understand that he was nothing but part of a link in a huge chain that we hope will last forever. I hope that I will see my son one day representing our sport in the ring.
Guys who don’t step in the ring, but want to claim they have the pure jiu jitsu, they sent my student away. Look at the difference: if one of their students came to my place, and claimed he is from their school, I won’t charge him, he will have the class for free. He will be training with us, and I will be trying to help him, in anyway I can, to improve his jiu jitsu. On the other hand, when my students goes there, he has to put up with an embarrassment like that. Someone claiming that that place is where the pure jiu jitsu is, and the jiu jitsu that he knows doesn’t work. This is a joke! I was laughing, when the guy told me, I was laughing.
That’s the reality. When a blue belt student of mine goes there, he is able to finish the brown belts! So, I really ask you, who has the pure jiu jitsu, who is the real deal? I’m not selling garbage here, I’m selling the reality, the one that I learned. I’m in a very privileged position. If I could go back in time, and be fifteen or sixteen years old again, I wouldn’t do it, because I had the chance to know the first generation, the second generation, the third generation, and for sure, I’ll know the fourth generation of fighters in my family. I will help to build them.
This rarity, I had the chance to see everything, to be in the middle of everything, I can tell you from my heart everything I saw. I know, a lot of people are becoming business orientated and their only thing is to make a buck at the end of the day. Believe it, if that was what my goal, I wouldn’t be doing what I’m doing, I’d be working in the financial market. I would have better odds to make it, instead of being in the martial arts business. This business is for those who put their art first. I would leave the rest of my life, without clothes, just wearing my gi and sleeping on the mat, with my wife and my kids living in the academy, and I would not betray everything I believe in and live, up to now.
So I tell you, while everyone would like to go back and be young again, I wouldn’t change my life one bit, because with what I learn and what I’ve seen, I’m happy with my age. I never understood when my father told me, when I was young, that every age would have its beauty. Now I understand. As I mature, the more I understand life, the more I understand every little experience that I had.
Everything that I’ve lived tells me that Gracie Barra – and now the Brazilian jiu jitsu dies out there, it’s lost – Gracie Barra is one of the main ones, because it was one of the initial ones. Gracie Barra, Alliance, and now the Gracie academies that are out there, to represent Brazilian jiu jitsu, they are the real deal.
If you have a guy competing in the world championship, if you have a guy competing in the nationals, on the top high level of athletes, and he’s doing good, that shows how great your schools are. Anyone that tells you otherwise, they’re out of their mind, it makes no sense. They shouldn’t be walking around the giants that I grew up with, you know, rubbing shoulders with them, which made me understand how great this sport is.
Anybody who gave that away, to get money back, only think about money, it’s completely wrong.
The FightWorks Podcast: Renzo, one of the things you said, I want to talk about. You said, if anybody deserves credit for making jiu jitsu what it is today, its Rolls, because he incorporated judo, wrestling, everything else, into something that before was more simple.
Renzo Gracie: Yes, he was responsible for all the innovations. I remember when I learned the triangle choke, at his academy, in Figueiredo Magalhaes 414 in Copacabana. I do remember, I was there! You can’t come to me and claim that you made this, you made that: it’s a joke. I see guys know, they learn a choke here and there, and they claim to create it. One strong example of that is when I show the anaconda choke to Rickson at PRIDE 2, the second PRIDE that I fought, we saw this move together. Seven years, eight years later, people claim they create it.
This all came from the infinite source of knowledge that my family is. Every time we came together, we exchange knowledge, we saw the moves, we saw everything. So for people to claim, like, that “now I have the purest”, they don’t go in the arena to prove it…it’s wrong. Rolls was always willing to be in there and prove how efficient it was. If you ran your mouth too much, he’d show up at the academy to kick your ass. That’s how he has, that’s how we learned, that’s how we grew up.
I had the chance to see all those generations, one after another, how everything was formed. I saw kids becoming men, you know, together with me as I was growing up. I saw guys like Roger. People claim that Roger has the purest jiu jitsu. Let me explain something to you: the only teacher Roger had his whole life was Carlos Gracie Jr, the head coach of Gracie Barra. He was his main teacher. When Roger was a champion, he came training with me here in New York to improve his no gi. My Uncle Carlos sent him over to train here with me, so he could start fighting in MMA.
In reality, everything Roger knows, was learned from Carlos Gracie Jr, the head of Gracie Barra. Believe it. If you want to sign up your kids, one of the best places to do it will be a Gracie Barra academy. So Rorion should actually do that! Especially because they are now like forty-five minutes from the academy. He should go there and sign up his kids, so they can learn what real jiu jitsu is, you know?
The FightWorks Podcast: There is a lot of Gracie Barra out there.
Renzo Gracie: Yes! For sure, he should go look for the closest one and go train there. Let me tell you one thing, I don’t tell you this to make fun, or try to talk down to them. I tell you this so they can read it, and understand they should be doing that!
Without the kids, Gracie Barra back then was too small. So every two or three days of the week, we had only ten guys to train with, when Gracie Barra was created. I was there, I was a kid, me, Ralph and Ryan. Every chance I had, I would go to Rickson’s academy to roll with him, to roll with my cousin Royler, and all the great guys that were there training.
He should do the same! If he wants to get better, he should go to his cousins academy and train there because that is where the champions are. They can claim they are good, once they can finish those guys. If you cannot finish them, if you cannot dominate them, if you cannot sweep them, if you cannot mount, you cannot show your superiority on the mat, just keep your mouth shut. You’ll look better. You won’t force me to go out of my way, to be talking the truth here.
The FightWorks Podcast: Renzo, you mentioned a story, one of the times when all the guys at Rolls academy down there, went to another academy, who gave problems, I think to Charles Gracie?
Renzo Gracie: Yes, yes, it was a guy from luta livre. We went there, and that’s how all of the fights between luta livre and jiu jitsu started. We had a fight on the street hours from that fight. Rillion, my cousin Rillion, who teaches in Florida, went down and fought the national champion in taekwondo, the luta livre guy. So, he beat the crap out of the guy on the street, and then this guy sneak from behind my brother Charles and knock him out, on the street. So, we went to his academy, and we beat the crap out of everybody there. That’s how everything started.
So, my friend, they force me to one day do a visit, because I will do it. I will grab two or three of my cousins here, and come over, to see who the real jiu jitsu is. So stop talking nonsense, stop selling your fish with doubts, stepping on people’s heads. You want to sell your fish, that actually isn’t fresh: it is fish that has been dead in a boat for over a month! Just because you keep it nice, don’t come and claim that our fish is bad. Our fish, we pick it up in the morning and sell at lunch time, that’s how the market works.
So don’t force me one day to do a visit, because I will do it. Right now, I’ve been training a lot, and I want to fight again. If along the way I need to do a visit, I will do it! I’ll bring the class with me, exactly like they liked to do it in the old times. I know exactly what is going to happen, when I get there, they will tell me “where do you think you are? You’re in America, I will call the police! You don’t belong here!” I do believe that is going to be the reaction. They don’t even have the balls to back it up, I don’t believe they have it. I know what I’m talking about, my friend, believe it.
I’ve seen everything, and anybody who needs to put the others down to look better, this is nothing but cowardice. I don’t put people down. I do admire them, I admire their work, I want them to succeed, but don’t come and claim that I’m behind in line, in any situation. That my team, the Barra Gracie, doesn’t have quality jiu jitsu. This is nonsense. That is the school that I helped to form, and that is the school that I’m willing to stand and defend any time.
I know that the quality of champions that come from that battlefield. I’ve been there to see it, and every time I have a chance, I go back there. Not only to teach, but to learn, because the people that are there are all great.
The FightWorks Podcast: Renzo, you talked a little about preparing to fight again. Can you tell our listeners a little about that?
Renzo Gracie: Yes my friend, I had a great meeting with Dana White, and the Fertitta brothers. They invite me to be part of the UFC. What can I say? How can I say no? I was two and a half years doing nothing but being lazy and eating chocolate, watching TV and watching the unbelievable fights that they put up, and I say, “this is it, it’s time to go back and have some with these young guns.”
So here I am. I will probably be back in action, I hope, at the beginning of next year. I know the invitation still stands, and my gut is already gone, I’m in good shape, so it’s time to battle.
The FightWorks Podcast: I know all of our listeners, because we are all jiu jitsu guys, listening right now, all over the world…our audience is called the Mighty 600,000. There’s not 600,000, but that’s the name.
Renzo Gracie: My brother, to be honest, with all the jiu jitsu guys here today, I do believe you have six million, my friend. [laughs]
The FightWorks Podcast: They are all going to be watching and pulling for you Renzo, so we wish you good luck with that. Anything else you want to tell our audience, before I let you go?
Renzo Gracie: My brother, thanks for this little space that you gave me, thanks for your friendship, and thanks for the giving the opportunity to express all my feelings. All you guys who train jiu jitsu, it is an honour to be fighting there for you guys. For every man who sweats and bleeds under the jiu jitsu flag, you know? This sport is not mine, it’s ours. So its a great pleasure to be representing us in there.
The FightWorks Podcast: Excellent. Thank you very much, Renzo!
Renzo Gracie: Thank you my brother, all the best my friend.
BJJ Poll: Are You Satisfied with the Progress You Have Made in Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu in 2009?
November 28, 2009
Hey it’s nearing the end of the year and it’s time to take stock of how far we’ve come. Most people train 3 times per week, which is a lot of time to invest in anything! (I do not know how many times per week religious people go to church on average, but I am guessing it’s less than 3 times!)
So what do you think? As this year draws to a close, how do you feel about the time you’ve put in? Are you better than when you started? Did you meet your training goals?
Vote in this week’s poll, let us know in the comments below, and feel free to leave us a message on the FightWorks Podcast message line 877-247-4662!
Kyra Gracie Offers All-Women BJJ Camp in Rio
November 28, 2009
Kyra Gracie at the 2009 BJJ Pan-Am Championships.
Kyra Gracie is offering a ten day Brazilian jiu-jitsu training camp in Rio de Janeiro from February 24th to March 3rd, 2010. This is the first time Kyra is offering a training opportunity of this sort, and it is only open to women over the age of 16. There is only room for ten students so if you are interested you had better move fast.
Kyra is of course, a multiple time world champion in Brazilian jiu-jitsu, and well, Kyra Gracie. We expect some of the female members of the Mighty 600,000 to attend this camp and bring back a full report!
Kyra has asked that anyone who would like to make arrangements to attend her training camp simply contact her at graciekyra@gmail.com. To confirm I’m not just making this stuff up, check out Kyra’s site.
Relson Gracie's Comments on Our Last Show
November 26, 2009
Relson Gracie at the 2009 BJJ World Championship.
On our most recent episode of The FightWorks Podcast, we had the rare opportunity to sit down with Relson Gracie, the second son of Helio Gracie. I always get a kick out of the conversations we have on our show about the old days of jiu-jitsu in Rio and the early days of the Gracie family, so I spent some time transcribing Relson’s comments below.
If you know Relson, you know that he speaks his own special variant of English and that transcribing this was not easy! So suffice to say, what is below is not word-for-word. But I believe I’ve maintained the meaning of Relson’s words. If you’d like to hear the original interview, I invite you to head over to episode #189 of our humble BJJ internet radio show and download the mp3 file there.
TRANSCRIPTION OF RELSON GRACIE CONVERSATION
Caleb: Relson, a lot has happened this year in jiu-jitsu. I think the biggest event in the very long history of Brazilian jiu-jitsu was that your father passed away in January. You want to talk about that?
Relson: Yes, firstly I am always going to be honored and blessed to be Helio Gracie’s son. Secondly, Helio Gracie changed the world. He was physically small. Carlos Gracie was his mentor in Brazilian jiu-jitsu. Carlos taught class until he was 25, 27 or 29 years old. He was the instructor in the academy. But at 30 years old, this changed. Helio Gracie took over. Helio Gracie was the one who most developed and changed Gracie jiu-jitsu and made it effective the way it is. Then Carlos stepped to the side to be the mentor of the family, because Helio Gracie couldn’t get to the point that he was technically speaking without a mentor like Carlos. Both brothers worked together. That’s the way the Gracie clan, the Gracie family was: with the diet from Carlos, and the jiu-jitsu from Helio. Helio’s the one who made all the champions. Carlson, Robson, Reyson… all these guys compete in the family. Rolls, myself, Rorion, all these people grew up under Helio Gracie on the mats. Carlos Gracie Junior moved to my house to learn jiu-jitsu with Helio Gracie. Carlos never gave any classes to Carlos Gracie Junior. I don’t remember Carlos in a gi teaching us. Carlos was the mentor, the doctor. He was the one who told us the day we should fight. He was like a guru of the family. I totally respect him and I think both worked together but in different jobs. Carlos was the mentor and the doctor, and Helio was the instructor and the master in jiu-jitsu. Helio’s the one who built the Gracie clan: Rolls, me, all the tough guys in the family, Rickson… All these guys were undefeated and it was beautiful the way we were raised under Helio. Helio Gracie was the most technical in jiu-jitsu. He’s dead, but everything I do, everything I learned I owe to one instructor: Helio Gracie. Rolls followed Helio’s system and helped me train. Rolls made me train a lot of judo competition and was a good example for me. But Rolls came from Helio Gracie too. Pure Helio Gracie jiu-jitsu. Rolls didn’t take one class with Carlos Gracie. Carlos Gracie never taught jiu-jitsu to us. That is true. Carlos Gracie was the mentor like I said. He always helped in the process of the diet and made Helio Gracie who Helio Gracie was. But jiu-jitsu was built and developed 100% by Helio Gracie. Today it’s still the best jiu-jitsu in the world. I think there is nothing better than growing up with having Helio Gracie as your instructor and master. I never change anything that he taught me. I only try to develop something around what he did. He’s the one who created it. I don’t have to change his jiu-jitsu. I only try to adjust the positions he told us. But I repeat a lot the science that Helio Gracie taught us. I see results of that today. My son is brought up in the same way. He’s still young in competition but he’s going to prove Helio Gracie has the best jiu-jitsu. Nothing’s going to change. Everybody thinks that Helio Gracie passed away, but Helio Gracie is the one who 100% built us and it was Helio Gracie who made my jiu-jitsu strong. There is nothing to change about that. Nobody can disagree with this. Carlos Gracie was the mentor, and Helio Gracie was the instructor of the Gracie family. I hold him in the highest standing. Helio Gracie is never going to die for us. His jiu-jitsu is never going to die. His jiu-jitsu is here, simple and effective.
Caleb: We were talking last night about Roger Gracie. Can you tell the family out there what you said?
Relson: Helio Gracie was Rolls Gracie’s instructor, directly. Rolls was Carlos’ son but was adopted by my daddy. Helio adopted Rolls like when he was one month old. When I was born, Rolls was already in our home. He was my older brother. He was always my older brother. Rolls taught me a lot. During this process when my daddy taught us, we were concerned with his methods. Rolls was an incredible competitor. He was an example as a person and motivated fighters, pushing us to compete – the whole clan: the older brothers like us in the third generation, those in the second generation like Carlson. Rolls was part of the third generation. Rolls always motivated us to compete, and made us follow that path.
Caleb: …and so, Roger?
Relson: Like you guys know Roger is Mauricio [Motta Gomes'] son. Maurcio was Rolls’ best instructor. When Rolls died, Mauricio, as Rolls’ disciple, kept the same ideas that Rolls passed to him. Mauricio passed those to his son. Roger I think is the only one in Gracie Barra that uses Mauricio’s jiu-jitsu. Because I think Mauricio has been Roger’s instructor. That’s what I can see and I can feel. I think I am 100% right about that. Roger grew up with Mauricio’s ways, and that is Rolls’ way. Rolls’ way was closed guard, and that’s what Roger is doing. In all those tournaments he closes the guard. And I don’t see many guys in Gracie Barra doing this style. Roger’s the only one. Roger is the only one that keeps the Gracie style. He closes the guard, attacks the neck, sweeps, gets a good mount, and he submits everybody from the mounted position. You don’t see many Gracie Barra guys doing that. Only Roger. Because he comes from the old generation of Rolls’ students. The closed guard – that’s what Mauricao, his daddy, passed to his son. The guys interviewed me before the Worlds and asked me who was going to win, and who was going to be the open champion. I responded right away that Roger was going to be the champion because he’s the only one who plays closed guard and uses the pure Gracie jiu-jitsu. Helio Gracie never taught us butterfly guard, spider guard, x-guard, any guard that had a name. He never used them.
Caleb: There was just one guard!
Relson: He never opened his guard! Helio Gracie never uncrossed the legs. He told everybody to keep the legs crossed. He trained a lot of chokes from the guard. Armlocks, guillotines, omoplatas, anything that could be done in the guard. The guard is the position where you have the most options for submissions. In the guard, I have 25 or 30 ways to submit people. That’s the position that gives the most chances for submission. People don’t know this. I love playing the guard because I can see how much defense the opponent has. And I have a lot of ways to submit. If he’s not sharp in defense, he’s going to get caught. That’s what Roger is doing. Roger’s the only one I see in Gracie Barra that is following Rolls’ style. I don’t approve of butterfly guard, x guard, all these kinds of guard – I don’t use them. I have ways to neutralize this. So Helio Gracie taught us the way to neutralize these open guards, these butterfly guards. Helio said, “I’m never going to use butterfly guard, spider guard, I don’t hold the sleeves”. That’s not Helio Gracie’s style. That’s not Roger’s style. And so the example is there. Roger is the one that most practices Gracie jiu-jitsu in competition today.
Dan: I think it’s interesting saying that Roger’s original jiu-jitsu came from Mauricio, his dad, and not from Carlos Gracie Junior.
Caleb: It makes sense!
Dan: That’s an interesting point, because style wise, when you compare Roger’s style with a lot of the other famous Gracie Barra competitors like Romulo Barral, Victor and Braulio Estima, they have radically different games and styles versus Roger even though Braulio has the similar physique – long and tall.
Caleb: One of the comparisons that is often made with Roger: many people say, “You know who has a similar, very simplistic game like Roger’s? Kron Gracie.”
Relson: Yes, that’s the same style. You’re seeing the original jiu-jitsu from Helio Gracie. It’s from Rolls. I keep the same style. All my students are doing the same. And the result is incredible.
Dan: You mean you’re not going to help me with upside down guard?
Relson: [laughs] You have ways to neutralize that. I am not impressed with these things. The flying to pass the guard, jumping stuff. That’s not my game. That’s not Helio Gracie jiu-jitsu. I have ways to neutralize this fancy, flying jiu-jitsu. It’s not Helio Gracie jiu-jitsu for sure.
…
Caleb: One of the things you mentioned Relson is something that I don’t think many people know: you and Rolls have the same birthday.
Relson: Yes, Rolls and I were born on the same day on the 28th of March. I learned a lot with Rolls. Rolls was my brother. Anything I liked (the same color, the same food, the same toy), we fought over it. Rolls and I had the same tastes. Because we were born on the same day, our characteristics were pretty much the same. The same blood. Rolls was a tough man. He’s the one who taught me a lot, helped me a lot. I had a disagreement with Rolls when I was eleven and Rolls gave me a beating. He was thirteen. That’s the only time I remember taking a beating. It was really serious. He punched me because we had a disagrement. I went five years without talking to Rolls. I was so upset about that beating. He thought it was right, but I didn’t think it was right. But anyway I got a beating and I learned from that.
Caleb: How old were you then?
Relson: I was eleven. No I think like twelve, and he was fourteen. He locked me in the bathroom and then I got a good beating. The family broke the bathroom door. I was upset and ran out. Then I did a bad thing. I tried to pull a knife on him. Then I was locked in my room for a month because I pulled a knife on my brother. But I remember this beating and I learned from that. Because I didn’t talk to Rolls for like 5 years of my life. From thirteen to eighteen he was the guy I hated most after this beating because I still had a young mentality. It was hard to swallow. I really got a beating. Then after that I didn’t talk to Rolls for five years. But after 18 years old I forgot about it. I totally forgave him. And then Rolls was my best friend. The most incredible brother. I wish you guys could’ve seen Rolls compete because he was incredible. He was a motivator, and incredible instructor, an incredible fighter. He was strict about his diet. He never took any kind of steroids. He always fought open division like me. If Rolls were alive today, his life would be totally devoted to jiu-jitsu. I miss him a lot. But God knows what to do, and life changes. Rolls was a good man, a good fighter, and a great brother. I had the opportunity to live all my life with Rolls. He was a great man. I recommend anything that comes from him. Look at all the champions Rolls made! All the good instructors he made. Good students, good black belts like Fabio Santos, Roger’s daddy Mauricao, Alvaro Romano from Ginastica Natural, Romero “Jacare” Cavalcanti. You guys know all this jiu-jitsu comes from the Gracie family. So everybody has a link with the Gracie family. Alliance, all these guys fight the Gracie family on the mats but all those guys come from us.
Dan: Relson, Rolls was a big motivator for you and your game wasn’t he? Didn’t he have a lot of influence on your game?
Relson: One hundred percent. Rolls was my older brother. He was two years older than me. Rolls was the one who introduced me to judo and started making me throw people on the ground. Rolls called me and asked if I wanted to train together. I would come from my school on Isla do Governador but on Mondays, Wednesdays, and Fridays I would go to Rolls’ school in the morning. The results were incredible. Rolls always pushed us to the edge. He made us train and compete hard. I miss him a lot. I had a lot in common with him. We had the same birthday. When you have the same birthday, we liked the same thing. Our tempers were the same. We are very similar. I miss him a lot. His cake was always next to mine when we had birthdays. I miss his cake being there. But I continue, and Rolls watches us from there, like my daddy. I am very happy and proud to have this family and of how much they taught me. So I conserve the pure Gracie jiu-jitsu. Helio Gracie jiu-jitsu. That’s how I am, how Rorion is, and Rickson. We’re the older brothers. The ones who keep the Gracie name at top of the line for years and years and years.
Rolls Gracie disciple Fabio Santos hangs up photos of Rolls at his San Diego academy.
#189 Marcelo Garcia and Relson Gracie
November 22, 2009
Marcelo Garcia at the 2009 BJJ World Championship.
This week’s episode of The FightWorks Podcast is very unique. To start, we are very fortunate to bring you an interview with one of Brazilian jiu-jitsu’s favorite personalities and most successful competitors, Marcelo Garcia. Garcia, a world champion in International Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu Federation competition as well as the Abu Dhabi Combat Club, recently has made some big changes. Not only has he returned to New York City, where he’s opened a new school, but he has begun offering BJJ instruction online at MGinAction.com with assistance from Josh Waitzkin, a brown belt in BJJ under Garcia and a decorated chess player on the global level. I have wanted to bring Garcia on our show for a very long time so I am especially grateful to FightWorks Podcast contributor Christian Simamora for bringing us this interview.
Secondly and no less exciting is a conversation with Relson Gracie! Relson is the second son of Helio Gracie and a red and black belt in Brazilian jiu-jitsu. Undefeated for 22 years in Brazil, Relson earned the nickname “Campeao”. These days Relson has a large association of jiu-jitsu schools and devotes his time to teaching his father’s jiu-jitsu to others. Conversations with Relson are always lively so try to keep up!
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Relson Gracie and cohost Dan.
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