Comments on: BJJ Poll: Do You Think Training in the Gi is Necessary for a Black Belt in Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu?

By: dave

dave — Sun, 05 Dec 2010 20:23:36 +0000

Random thoughts…

Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu = Gi
Submission Grappling = No gi

Submission grappling is a mixture of techniques, taken from BJJ, Wrestling, Judo, Sambo, and whatever else works on the ground. (within the rules of no-gi competition.)

Traditional BJJ does not include Wrestling or Sambo, and you don’t see many BJJ competitors winning with uchi mata very often either.

Both arts have the same goal, though, and use the same basic strategies. Get the fight to the ground, gain position, and get a submission.

Many of the setups for the techniques are different because of the gi. (or lack of)
Points are also awarded differently in competition.

I’ve seen good gi players get killed in a no-gi match and vice versa. They are two different animals.

I think no-gi hasn’t been around long enough for it to be legitimately separated from BJJ yet. That’s where the confusion is, imo. We have Submission grappling and No-gi Jiu-jitsu, which are the same exact thing. No-gi doesn’t even have an official name yet.

By: Phil

Phil — Tue, 26 Jan 2010 04:39:12 +0000

First and foremost I have the deepest gratitude and respect for the Gracie family and the great tradition of Brazilian JiuJitsu.

I do not consider Rashad Evans a Brazilian JiuJitsu black belt. To earn a BJJ black belt it endures ALOT of training with the gi and no-gi. The last podcast of 2009 with Master Jacare Calvancanti, when asked the question..

” Would you consider a person who only trains in no gi jiujitsu a black belt in JiuJitsu? ” He responded with a ” NO ” He continued to add that a person can be a luta – livre / no gi black belt, but no a BJJ black belt. I agree with him on this. When Rolles mentioned how great of athlete/MMA fighter Rashad is and how he picks things up so quickly.. etc. I didn’t know that is what it takes to be a BJJ blackbelt. I really didn’t.

Rashad has never trained in a gi as Rolles mentioned in all their training sessions together. To award him such a prestigous title of BJJ Black belt based on only training no gi.. doesn’t add up to me. In my opinion Rashad should of received a pair of grappling shorts with a black belt on it… but the belt? For what? what will he use it for ? What does it represent? How great of an athlete he is? How talented of a MMA fighter he is?? It doesn’t add up. A student of JiuJitsu puts in countless hours of gi and no gi training in bjj on the path to the black belt and beyond.

By: Rob Jones

Rob Jones — Sun, 17 Jan 2010 03:35:37 +0000

Bruce lee said the only thing a belt is for is to hold your pants up.
I think it is just a symbol that a student has reached profound ability, and has nothing to do with wearing a gi. and yeah a gi might symbolize clothing but where i live most guys take there shirts off to fight. And you cant do a collar choke to a hanes t-shirt it will rip first. Very few people fight with there coats or jackets on.
Many teachers will do different things different schools will have different grading systems thats what makes us martial artist. Every artist is different and the only thing that truly matters is the JiuJitsu. When your fighting a guy in the ring or in the street no one sees what belt you are but they will see the JiuJitsu.

By: Rasmus

Rasmus — Thu, 14 Jan 2010 20:14:57 +0000

Isn`t the BJJ belt ranking system supposed to be performance based? So that if you roll like a black belt (wearing a gi), then you are a black belt…? I believe this is what sets the BJJ ranking system apart from other, traditional martial arts. If we keep to this mindset, the BJJ belts will forever represent the students ability to utilize the techniques and not “just” his or her`s knowledge of them and BJJ will therefore never be watered down…

By: Applied Zen

Applied Zen — Wed, 13 Jan 2010 03:57:05 +0000

Some of you guys are silly. Rashad is a black belt, so what? If he can use his two hands two legs most effectively on the ground, and can tear you apart with submissions and positional dominance, then he has the right to receive whatever belt his teacher gives him. Have you ever roll with guys who are like Rashad Evan? You will feel like shit if you do, so leave him and Rolles Gracie alone. Gi or No gi, it doesnt matter. Maeda fought in numerous vale tudo fights, i’m sure many of them he may have worn a gi, many without. The point is, brazilian jiu jitsu is about ground fighting, regardless of gi or no gi. If Rashad kicks ass like the way Rolles describes then he has every respect and honor to receive his belt.

By: Adam

Adam — Mon, 11 Jan 2010 05:43:30 +0000

Submission grappling black belt for sure. Brazilian Jiu Jitsu black belt never.

By: Gerardo

Gerardo — Mon, 11 Jan 2010 01:41:33 +0000

Lets go back to Romero Jacare Calvante interview, he stated that the gi is the true essence of the art. Of Course we have to respect Rolles decision, he is qualified to do give a black belt to anyone he thinks deserves it. Josh Barnett won hes division at the worlds no gi against a black belt, its anyone going to give him a black belt ? what are the chances of any other mma fighter getting black belt.

By: rowdy

rowdy — Sun, 10 Jan 2010 17:28:07 +0000

I don’t think you disrespected him at all by asking the question.

Also, I think anyone has the right to question anyone about anything. The answer one receives is beyond the questioner’s control though.

Is BJJ mostly about training with the gi day in and day out? Or is a majority of BJJ about vale tudo and no-gi grappling? Historically it seems that BJJ is about the gi and vale tudo and no-gi were subsets.

Are we to reward strength and power instead of technique? Or what combination of them?
Does the UFC even matter to BJJ?
Is BJJ turning into a traditional martial art???

By: dan thomas

dan thomas — Sun, 10 Jan 2010 16:37:40 +0000

who cares what belt. it only matters to rank experiance in the tournements. my son will have had his white belt 8 years before hes 16. get what you need from jiu jitsu for your self to admire. we dont need to worry about flashy colours to impress people. i am waiting to see rashad on the mat. hope he dose well.

By: Jason

Jason — Sun, 10 Jan 2010 16:02:26 +0000

Rolles, please dont add your name to the list of Gracies selling out their name. The colored belt system only applies to GI based jiu jitsu. A black belt in brazilian jiu jitsu represents something. The complete mastership of the art which is made up of a gigantic encyclopedia of gi based techniques in addition to the smaller set of no-gi techniques. It is impossible to call someone a black belt who has only mastered the smaller subset of no-gi techniques.

Can you imagine going to the Torrance academy, and testing for your black belt, only to have the instructors realize you dont know the majority of gi techniques? You would be laughed out of the school, and yet you are awarding a black belt to Rashad. Its shameful. The watering down of BJJ continues.

Rashad is clearly black belt level at no-gi competition, but if he cant pass the same test required by the rest of us at the Torrance academy, or any legit BJJ academy, then this is simply nothing more than favoritism.

By: FranZS

FranZS — Sun, 10 Jan 2010 15:55:26 +0000

I agree with Bennett

By: John Bennett

John Bennett — Sun, 10 Jan 2010 15:41:27 +0000

The primary purpose of the martial art Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu is to teach practitioners how to fight in real street fights against people wearing clothes. The gi simulates clothing. Learning now to use clothing in a fight is an essential part of jiu-jitsu. No-gi equals no jiu-jitsu.

The idea that a person could achieve expert level certification in a martial art without knowing the core components of that martial art is silly.

If someone wants to award black belts in a sport like MMA where gloves protect the fighters’ hands from breakage and where fighters are tested for HIV, they can award sporty black belts in MMA like they do for sporty Taekwondo.

By: Eric

Eric — Sun, 10 Jan 2010 13:24:41 +0000

Hey Caleb, Why should anyone question Rolles ability to decide who and when to give out any belt he chooses, especially with his lineage and competition background. No one seemed to mind when Eddie Bravo promoted his first black belt Denny Prokopos, who only competes no-gi. Don’t get me wrong, I am a huge advocate of the gi, but nowdays, with the huge high level no-gi competition scene, many martial artists, especially mixed martial artists, train almost exclusively no-gi. Does that make them any less dangerous on the mat? Just watch the footage of Jish Barnett and Romulo Barral, Barral’s statements after that match shows just how well a primarily a high level no-gi grappler can do in the gi. Keep up the excellent work!! I look forward to the Fightworkspodcast every week. It motivates ne to hit tbe mat ad soon as possible every Sunday morning. – Eric C